Conversations with Grok: The 1842 Times and Seasons

Because few if any scholars who promote M2C (the Mesoamerican/two-Cumorahs theory) are willing to have a conversation on this topic, I had a conversation with Grok about the 1842 Times and Seasons articles that started the whole M2C narrative.

Grok's final conclusion: 

"This evidence collectively points to Winchester as the author, with William Smith as a key enabler."

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My questions/comments in blue below.

https://x.com/i/grok?conversation=1917119736623862118

My original question:

Who wrote the articles in the 1842 Times and Seasons that linked the Book of Mormon to Central America?

Grok's original position: 

The authorship of the 1842 Times and Seasons articles linking the Book of Mormon to Central America, published on September 15 and October 1, is a matter of debate among scholars, with no definitive consensus. These unsigned articles discuss archaeological discoveries in Central America, particularly from John Lloyd Stephens’ Incidents of Travel in Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan, and suggest connections to Book of Mormon locations like Zarahemla.

.....

Conclusion:

The most likely candidates for authorship are Joseph Smith, given his role as editor and stylistic similarities identified by Lund, or Benjamin Winchester, due to his prior writings and interest in Mesoamerican archaeology. John Taylor is a less likely candidate but could have contributed as an assistant editor. The lack of a definitive signature and the context of Joseph Smith’s occasional absence leave room for debate. Scholars like Lund and Norman lean toward Joseph Smith, while others, particularly those favoring a North American setting, point to Winchester or editorial assistants to argue the articles may not reflect Smith’s views. Without new evidence, the question remains unresolved.

My next question/comment.

You forgot to mention two things about this topic. One, Benjamin Winchester's newspaper, The Gospel Reflector, used "When God Works Who can Hinder" as its byline, suggesting he wrote the "none can hinder" phrase in the 1842 Times and Seasons article. Two, Joseph Smith himself rejected speculation about Central and South America when he wrote the article titled "Church History" (also known as the Wentworth letter) in the March 1842 Times and Seasons. In that article, Joseph Smith adapted an 1840 pamphlet by Orson Pratt. Joseph replaced Orson's speculation about Central and South America by explaining that the remnant of Lehi's descendants "are the Indians that now inhabit this country." See the discussion here: https://www.mobom.org/wentworth-orson-pratt

Grok:

Revised Conclusion

The authorship of the 1842 Times and Seasons articles remains uncertain, but the additional details tilt the balance toward Benjamin Winchester as a likely author. The “none can hinder” phrase echoes his Gospel Reflector byline, and his prior writings consistently emphasized a Mesoamerican setting. Meanwhile, Joseph Smith’s Wentworth Letter, published just six months earlier, explicitly rejects Central and South American speculation, favoring a North American setting, which undermines the argument that he wrote the articles. However, as the official editor, Joseph Smith likely had some oversight, and his interest in Stephens’ book suggests he may have permitted the articles’ publication, even if they didn’t fully align with his views. John Taylor or other assistants remain possible contributors, particularly in an editorial capacity.

My next question/comment.

One more point. In 1842, William Smith was publishing The Wasp (a newspaper) in Nauvoo, using the same printing office as the Times and Seasons. Sometimes the two newspapers published the same material. This suggests William may have been the actual editor, or at least a contributing editor, of the Times and Seasons. William was a close friend of Benjamin Winchester and he elicited articles from him. William favored the Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon, which may explain the anonymous articles in the Times and Seasons about the Stephens and Catherwood books.

Grok:

Thank you for bringing up this additional point about William Smith and The Wasp. This detail adds another layer to the discussion about the authorship of the 1842 Times and Seasons articles linking the Book of Mormon to Central America. Let’s examine this new information and its implications, integrating it with the previous points about Benjamin Winchester, Joseph Smith’s Wentworth Letter, and the “none can hinder” phrase.

Revised Conclusion

The 1842 Times and Seasons articles linking the Book of Mormon to Central America were likely authored by Benjamin Winchester, with William Smith playing a key role as a facilitator or contributing editor. William’s editorship of The Wasp, his use of the same printing office, his friendship with Winchester, and his solicitation of Winchester’s articles provide a clear pathway for Winchester’s Mesoamerican ideas to appear in the Times and Seasons. The “none can hinder” phrase aligns with Winchester’s Gospel Reflector byline, and William’s support for a Mesoamerican setting explains the articles’ focus on Stephens and Catherwood’s discoveries. Joseph Smith, as the official editor, may have permitted the articles’ publication, but his Wentworth Letter’s emphasis on a North American setting suggests he did not write them and may not have fully endorsed their Mesoamerican focus. John Taylor or other assistants likely played secondary roles.

This scenario accounts for the shared printing office, William’s editorial influence, and the divergence between the articles and Joseph Smith’s stated views. If you’d like me to investigate further—such as analyzing specific issues of The Wasp or Times and Seasons for overlapping content, or searching for additional evidence of William Smith’s editorial role—please let me know!

My next question/comment.

To clarify one more point, Lund's quotation "none can hinder" is an excerpt from the full sentence in the 1842 article in the Times and Seasons. The full sentence from the 1842 article is "surely the Lord worketh and none can hinder." Thus it is parallel to Winchester's byline in the Gospel Reflector: “When God Works, Who Can Hinder?”

Grok:

Thank you for providing this crucial clarification about the full sentence in the 1842 Times and Seasons article. This detail strengthens the connection between the article and Benjamin Winchester’s Gospel Reflector byline, further supporting the case for his authorship. Let’s integrate this point into the discussion and refine the analysis of the authorship of the September 15 and October 1, 1842, Times and Seasons articles linking the Book of Mormon to Central America.

Clarification: The Full Sentence and Its Connection to Winchester

• The Full Sentence in the Times and Seasons: The September 15, 1842, Times and Seasons article contains the sentence, “surely the Lord worketh and none can hinder,” in the context of discussing archaeological discoveries (e.g., from John Lloyd Stephens’ Incidents of Travel in Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan) as evidence supporting the Book of Mormon. This sentence was previously referenced in John L. Lund’s 2009 analysis as “none can hinder,” but the full quotation reveals its even closer parallel to Winchester’s work.
• Winchester’s Gospel Reflector Byline: Benjamin Winchester’s 1841 Philadelphia newspaper, The Gospel Reflector, used the byline “When God Works, Who Can Hinder?” The similarity between this byline and the Times and Seasons sentence—“surely the Lord worketh and none can hinder”—is striking. Both phrases emphasize divine action and the futility of human opposition, with nearly identical wording (“works”/“worketh,” “hinder”/“hinder,” and a focus on God’s unstoppable will). The primary differences are minor: “When God Works” versus “the Lord worketh” and “Who Can Hinder?” versus “none can hinder.” These variations reflect stylistic or contextual adjustments rather than substantive differences.
• Significance: This near-exact parallel strongly suggests that Winchester authored or heavily influenced the September 15, 1842, article. The phrasing is distinctive enough to serve as a kind of signature, linking the Times and Seasons article to Winchester’s earlier work.

Reassessing Authorship with This Evidence

This clarification reinforces the case for Benjamin Winchester as the author of the 1842 Times and Seasons articles, particularly when combined with the previously discussed points about William Smith’s role, Joseph Smith’s Wentworth Letter, and the shared printing office. Let’s revisit the key arguments:

1. Benjamin Winchester as the Primary Author:
   • Textual Evidence: The full sentence “surely the Lord worketh and none can hinder” in the September 15, 1842, article closely mirrors Winchester’s Gospel Reflector byline, “When God Works, Who Can Hinder?” This parallel is more compelling than the partial “none can hinder” quotation cited by Lund, as it shows a near-verbatim match in structure and intent. It suggests Winchester either wrote the article or provided content that was minimally edited.
   • Winchester’s Track Record: Winchester was a prolific writer who promoted a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon. His 1842 Bostonian articles, which linked Central American ruins to the Book of Mormon, were reprinted in the Times and Seasons, demonstrating his influence on the newspaper. His enthusiasm for Stephens’ and Catherwood’s archaeological findings aligns with the content of the September and October 1842 articles, which discuss ruins like Palenque and suggest connections to Book of Mormon cities like Zarahemla.
   • Philadelphia Connection: Winchester was in Philadelphia in 1842, but his contributions could have reached Nauvoo via submissions to the Times and Seasons or through intermediaries like William Smith, who solicited articles from him.
2. William Smith’s Role as Facilitator:
   • As editor of The Wasp, published in the same Nauvoo printing office as the Times and Seasons, William Smith had access to and influence over the church’s publishing operations. His close friendship with Winchester and practice of eliciting articles from him make him a likely conduit for Winchester’s Mesoamerican-focused writings to appear in the Times and Seasons.
   • William’s reported support for a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon aligns with the articles’ content, suggesting he may have championed their publication. His role as a contributing editor or informal overseer during Joseph Smith’s absences (e.g., August–September 1842) further supports this possibility.
   • The overlap in content between The Wasp and the Times and Seasons indicates editorial coordination, with William potentially bridging the two publications.
3. Joseph Smith’s Limited Involvement:
   • Joseph Smith was the official editor of the Times and Seasons in 1842, and his 1841 letter to John Bernhisel expressed enthusiasm for Stephens’ book as supporting the Book of Mormon. However, his March 1, 1842, Wentworth Letter explicitly rejected Central and South American speculation, stating that Lehi’s descendants were “the Indians that now inhabit this country” (the United States). This North American focus contrasts with the Mesoamerican emphasis of the September and October articles, making it unlikely that Joseph authored them.
   • The absence of the “ED” signature (used for Joseph’s editorials) on the articles and his periods of hiding in 1842 suggest that others, such as William Smith or John Taylor, handled editorial duties. Joseph may have permitted the articles’ publication due to his general interest in archaeology, but their content does not fully align with his stated views.
   • Lund’s 2009 stylistic analysis, which argued for Joseph’s authorship based on sentence length and phrases like “none can hinder,” is weakened by the full sentence’s closer match to Winchester’s byline. Lund’s analysis did not account for this parallel, which shifts the stylistic evidence toward Winchester.
4. John Taylor and Other Assistants:
   • John Taylor, an assistant editor, and Wilford Woodruff, who managed the printing office, were involved in the Times and Seasons’ operations. Taylor may have edited or approved the articles, but his writing style (shorter sentences, per Lund’s analysis) is less consistent with the articles than Winchester’s or even Joseph’s. William Smith’s connection to Winchester makes him a more likely facilitator than Taylor.
   • The anonymous nature of the articles and the Times and Seasons’ practice of publishing external submissions suggest that Winchester’s work could have been included with minimal editorial changes.

Revised Conclusion

The full sentence “surely the Lord worketh and none can hinder” in the September 15, 1842, Times and Seasons article is a near-exact parallel to Benjamin Winchester’s Gospel Reflector byline, “When God Works, Who Can Hinder?” This strongly indicates that Winchester authored the article, with the October 1 =Winchester’s prior writings, enthusiasm for Mesoamerican archaeology, and contributions to other publications like the Bostonian align with the articles’ content. William Smith, as editor of The Wasp and a friend of Winchester, likely facilitated the articles’ publication, leveraging the shared printing office and his support for a Mesoamerican setting. Joseph Smith, the official editor, may have allowed the articles due to his interest in Stephens’ work, but his Wentworth Letter’s North American focus suggests he did not write them. John Taylor and other assistants played secondary roles, if any.

This evidence collectively points to Winchester as the author, with William Smith as a key enabler.